INTERVIEW
INTERVIEW
Artisle Talk｜Celeste Viv Ly：冰封阈限 —— 生物技术未来、水体与低温政治的超信叙事
Artisle Talk｜Celeste Viv Ly: Ice-bound thresholds — traversing hyperstitional narratives of biotechnological futurity, hydrocene and the cryopolitical imaginary
采访：陈泉池 starry | 发表于Artisle 艺术岛屿
Interviewed by Starry Chen, Published by Artisle
(Interview conducted in English, translated into Chinese)
A: Artisle | C：Celeste Viv Ly
《体外 in vitro [ _ ] |{ _____ }》，瑞典哥德堡13festivalen 行为艺术节和德国Generate!行为表演与计算媒体艺术节演出现场
A: 欢迎来到Artisle做客！可以简单的介绍一下自己吗？
C: Hi 我是Celeste Viv Ly，常驻于伦敦、纽约和线上的艺术家和写作者，来自华盛顿州西雅图。创作基于对生物技术过程、推测性神话科学、及身体伤害与协同作用的探讨，构建雕塑、装置、行为表演、声音和文本之间的推测性、超文本性质的叙事，游走于生成过程中的交织空间。这些映射游牧性背景以及我对技术文化和低温政治(cryopolitics) 等相关概念的持续研究。
A: Welcome to Artisle! Could you briefly introduce yourself?
C: Hi I’m Celeste Viv Ly, a multimedia artist and writer from Seattle, WA (Coast Salish land) and currently based in London, New York (Lenape land) and online. My practice is rooted in an inquiry into biotechnological processes, speculative mythscience, and bodily registers of harm and synergy. I work across diegetic prototypes and multimedia — sculptural installation, performance, sound, and text — in sprawling speculative, hypertextual narratives. My research navigates interspaces that destabilise and reconfigure human and more-than-human entanglements in processes of becoming. These spaces often reflect my peripatetic experiences and an ongoing interest in technoculture and cryopolitics.
A: 你在伦敦大学金史密斯学院 Goldsmiths, University of London 圣詹姆斯哈查姆教堂展出的项目《空中灵柩 in sarcophago vivum aeri》讨论了水体、生命与死亡、离散、系统性暴力等议题，你是如何从与低温保存技术有关的真实事件出发，将交织的叙事阐发为以雕塑为主题的作品的？
C: 《空中灵柩 in sarcophago vivum aeri》源于自己对低温保存、冷冻技术作为档案和经验方法、低温人体冷藏公司和相关案件的持续研究，扩展到更大的社会文化范围内的西西弗斯循环，涵盖劳动、运输、暴力、流动性和位移。它由包括埃塞克斯冷藏卡车事件的一系列事件催生，以及Alcor v. Pilgeram et al案件（2015~2020）---- Pilgeram为他父亲（一位富有的低温科学家）的冷冻头部而与一家低温公司进行的法律斗争，因为在低温保存期间，头部和身体被切割（后来被火化）。在埃塞克斯冷藏卡车事件中，39名越南国民在被拐卖后在冷冻货车中被冷冻致死，因为冰柜冷藏功能被不知情地启动。在最初的信息浪潮之后，这件事让我充满了恐惧，因为它在时间和地理上相对接近我生活的时间和地点发生。作为一个拥有相似族裔和迁移背景的人，它在我的脑海中留下了一个看似不合理但寒心的印记：如果我出生在不同的家庭、社会经济背景、国家等等，这可能会是我。
作品以交织在一起的真实事件线索的反思形式呈现，这些事件在它们余波中在平行时空中相互启发，同时由低温保存和/或制冷引起的。低温保存和制冷科技为在保存商品（制冷）和人体以便在未来更先进的技术时代潜在复活（低温保存用于冷冻学的过程），在这些跨越截然不同的社会经济水平的案例中却同时讽刺地成为过早结束生命或可能剥夺另一次生命机会的因素。
该作品探索了冷冻技术背后的档案冲动以及强制静止状态的暴力现实，这些现实在诸如埃塞克斯卡车死亡事件和冷冻保存诉讼等真实事件中得以显现。这些事件引发了对保存技术如何反而加速消失的探讨，迫使人正视生命与死亡、流动与静止之间脆弱的界限。
-321 °F | in sarcophago vivum aeri, installation view at St. James Hatcham, Goldsmiths, University of London
在Goldsmiths的装置中，水作为存在的短暂性核心隐喻贯穿始终。水既赐予生命也潜在致死危险——当其冻结时，水成为一种武器，其流动性是潜在暴力的所在。通过从一个未公开的位置运送海水并将其冻结成冰柱雕塑，邀请观众思考冷冻保存不仅作为一种技术过程，同时也作为对在暴力和流离失所循环中被困住的身体进行保存的隐喻。悬挂的冰柱逐渐融化滴入类似石棺的蜡雕海水容器中，成为对在迁徙途中丧生者的挽歌，同时也指向了这些系统性力量的循环性、徒劳性。作品作为这些张力的物质综合体，邀请观众反思冷冻保存与流离语境中的死灵学（necropolitics）。
这件作品通过探索生命、死亡和超越之间的临界空间、死灵学，以及对我自己的离散的个人经历和有流散性代际创伤的家庭历史的思考，试图反映受意识形态伤害的身体穿过水体的的轨迹和挣扎，以及在永恒生成的对群落和身份认同的集体渴望，所有这些都被技术和技术科学想像协助、假肢化、破坏和/或永恒化。
A: Your body of work “-321°F | in sarcophago vivum aeri,” exhibited at the St James Hatcham church at Goldsmiths, addresses themes of water, life, death, diaspora, and systemic violence. How did you begin with real events related to cryopreservation technology and develop these intertwined narratives into a sculpture-centered work?
C: Developed from my ongoing research on cryopreservation, freezing as an archival and empirical method, the Essex refrigerator lorry incident and private cryonics organisations, the work expands to the Sisyphean cycle of labour, transportation, violence, mobility and displacement on a larger socio-cultural scale. catalysed by the series of events including the Alcor v. Pilgeram et al. case (2015~2020) — Pilgerman’s legal fight for his late father (an affluent cryogenic scientist)’s frozen head against a cryogenics firm, due to the severance of the head and body (later cremated) upon cryopreservation. And in the Essex lorry deaths incident in 2019, 39 Vietnamese nationals were found frozen to death in the articulated refrigerator lorry they were trafficked in after the freezer had been unknowingly switched on. After the initial intense waves, the thought of it filled me with abject horror because such a horrendous incident has happened in relatively close temporal and geographical proximity to when and where I have been living. And as a person sharing similar ethnic backgrounds, it has left a seemingly irrational but chilling imprint in my mind: it might have been me, if I had been born into a different family, a different socio-economic background, a different country, etc. / with a different fate.
These events may have trans-spatiotemporally informed each other in the parallel of their visceral, tragic aftermaths, both of which were caused by the processes of cryopreservation and/or refrigeration. Engineered to preserve goods (refrigeration) and human bodies for potential revival (cryopreservation processes used in cryonics) in a more technologically advanced era, cryopreservation and refrigeration in these cases ironically became what prematurely ended lives or possibly deprived one of any chance of living another.
“-321°F | in sarcophago vivum aeri” (the title is a Latin phrase in reference to the refrain in Todesfugue by Paul Celan) emerged from my ongoing research into cryopreservation and its socio-political ramifications. The work is an exploration of both the archival impulse of cryonics and the violent realities of forced immobility, as evidenced by real-life events like the Essex lorry deaths and cryogenic preservation lawsuits. These incidents sparked a deep interest in how technologies designed for preservation can paradoxically accelerate erasure, forcing us to confront the fragile boundaries between life and death, mobility and stasis.
Archive, part of -321 °F | in sarcophago vivum aeri, installation view at St. James Hatcham, Goldsmiths, University of London
The installation at Goldsmiths weaves together these threads, using water as a tenet for the transitory nature of existence. Water is both a life-force and potentially lethal—when frozen, it becomes a weapon, its fluidity a site of potential violence. By transporting seawater from an undisclosed location and freezing it into icicle sculptures and pouring into the vessel-shaped wax sculpture, I invited viewers to consider the symbolic weight of cryopreservation not only as a technological process but also as a metaphor for the preservation of bodies caught in cycles of violence and mobility. The suspended icicle slowly melting into a sarcophagus-like wax sculpture became an elegiac tribute to the lives lost in transit, while simultaneously pointing to the cyclical, Sisyphean nature of such systemic forces. The work operates as a material synthesis of these tensions, inviting reflection on the necropolitics in the contexts of cryopreservation and displacement.
Exploring the liminal space between life, death and beyond, diasporic experiences, and necropolitics, the work is a reflection of the trajectories and struggle of bodies victimised by ideologies, in transgression, across systems of governance and bodies of water; aided, prostheticised, sabotaged, and/or eternalised by technologies and the technoscientific imaginary. It is dedicated to all the bodies that have been found and lost in the sea and beyond, the diasporic, and ‘us’.
-321 °F | in sarcophago vivum aeri, installation view at St. James Hatcham, Goldsmiths, University of London
A: 项目中的行为表演《扭矩Torque》中，将水从133° 79.515 N 012° 90.797 E 抽取后运送到伦敦，你是如何确定这一坐标以及设计包含占卜在内的整个“仪式”，并最终以冰锥形式呈现“水”的？
C: 《扭矩Torque》被构想为围绕从一个特定、边界模糊的点提取并运送海水的表演仪式。坐标133° 79.515 N 012° 90.797 E 是一个“不存在的海上地点”，原始坐标数据被模糊处理后的成像，旨在引发人们对地理主权荒诞性的思考，以及那些常被忽略但却被无形劳动和流离失所者频繁穿越的“无名之地”。这些坐标本身成为了全球水域中那些被历史遗忘的幽灵般存在的密码——那些在避难和后殖民背景下无人认领的身体。
Torque, Part II, 2021, L15.4*W11.3 cm, inkjet print
将水从此地运至伦敦的仪式旨在呼应跨越边界的身体的流动与位移，唤起一种反向的海葬。当水抵达伦敦后，部分的水被凝结成为冰锥——这一物质隐喻象征着时间、记忆和创伤的冻结与保存。悬挂的冰柱作为遗物和武器，既象征水既能赐予又能夺取生命的双重性。它们随着时间的流逝逐渐融化，类似于古老的水刑，每滴水将观众引入作品对系统性暴力与保存徒劳性的沉思。这一循环过程以及蜡的形成过程为一种占卜，邀观众去解读随着冰的融化而形成的形状和意义，从而揭示新的叙事。
A: In your performance piece "Torque," water was extracted from coordinates 133° 79.515 N 012° 90.797 E and transported to London. How did you determine these coordinates, design the entire “ritual," and the material-based divination, and ultimately present the water in the form of icicle sculptures?
C: "Torque" was conceptualised as a performative ritual centred on the extraction and transportation of seawater from a specific, liminal point—coordinates 133° 79.515 N 012° 90.797 E, an ‘undisclosed, nonexistent’ location at sea. The choice of coordinates was deliberate, drawing attention to the absurdity of geographical sovereignty and the non-places that are often left uncharted, yet heavily trafficked by invisible labor and displaced bodies. The coordinates themselves became a cipher for the spectral presences haunting global waters—bodies lost to history, unclaimed in displaced and postcolonial contexts.
The ritual of transporting water from this location to London was designed to echo the displacement and movement of bodies across borders, invoking a kind of reverse burial at sea. Once the water arrived in London, it was transformed into icicles—a material metaphor for the freezing and preservation of time, memory, and trauma. The icicles, suspended in midair, acted as both relics and weapons, embodying the paradox of water as both giver and taker of life. Their slow melting over time paralleled ancient water torture techniques, with each drip drawing viewers further into the work’s meditation on systemic violence and the futility of preservation in the face of entropy. This cyclical process became a form of divination, inviting interpretations of the shapes and meanings formed by the wax and as the ice melted, transforming one state of matter into another, and thereby unveiling new narratives.
Torque, Part I, 2021. performance documention, film still
A: 《北纬42°03’28.9”东经138°12’25.0”》（2023）是你在京都艺术中心展出的场域特定作品，其声音设计是如何与装置在空间内相辅相成的？
C: 在京都艺术中心展出的声音雕塑装置作品《42°03'28.9"N 138°12’25.0”E》聚焦于地缘创伤（geotrauma）、核文化及当前冲突对环境资源、能源供应和自然的影响，通过战争与核灾难的时间延迟视角，探讨水政治、 卑贱（abjection）、超物体（hyperobjects）及声音研究等主题。
在《42°03'28.9"N 138°12’25.0”E》里，声音既作为一个自主存在的实体，也作为与装置交织在一起的部分。京都艺术中心的空间背景对作品的概念相对重要——这件作品被设计为栖息在两片建筑空间之间的边缘走廊，创造了一个随着环境和人类存在而波动的声音空隙。有异于同一系列作品《扭矩 Torque》 中所用到的坐标，标题里的经纬度 42°03’28.9"N 138°12’25.0”E 是一个存在的但假设的数学位置， 延续对相关的跨时空地理阈限空间 (liminal zone) 的探讨，它得于京都艺术中心、福岛核事故以及研究所涉及到的其他归零地 (ground zero, 核爆炸直接发生的上方、下方或所在的位置) 之间计算出所计算出的地理中点 (midpoint) 。声音与空间的互动基于延迟性 (temporal latency) 的概念，尤其是福岛灾难的残留回响，它在物质和非物质领域中回荡。
𝟰𝟮°𝟬𝟯'𝟮𝟴.𝟵"𝗡 𝟭𝟯𝟴°𝟭𝟮’𝟮𝟱.𝟬”𝗘, Nov 2023, Kyoto Art Centre, Kyoto, JP
展览中的作品关注切尔诺贝利核电站的历史与现状，以及1986年灾难的遗留影响和其在俄乌战争中的角色。苏联在控制乌克兰时期建造了切尔诺贝利核电站，而根据历史档案研究1986年的灾难被许多资料视为导致苏联几年前解体的因素之一。在当前冲突中，俄罗斯军队于2022年2月24日至3月31日期间占领了该电站，以此作为其入侵乌克兰的一部分，导致辐射检测水平上升并带来了新的辐射泄漏风险。
通过展出作品、档案研究及与客座演讲者和策展人包括露西娅·皮特罗伊斯特里（Lucia Pietroiusti，伦敦蛇形画廊Serpentine Gallery 策展人）、苏珊·舒普利博士（Dr. Susan Schuppli，法证建筑 Forensic Architecture 董事会主席）、五十岚太郎（日本建筑史学家和评论家）和 居原田遥（客座独立策展人）举行座谈，切尔诺贝利事件及其当前作为退役核电站的状态被纳入讨论，探讨战争与核文化之间交织的影响。并将其与我们在驻地和展览项目中进行了实地研究的福岛核电站事故进行跨时间的平行对话。
与苏珊·舒普利博士（Dr. Susan Schuppli，法证建筑董事会主席）艺术家学术研讨会，京都艺术中心，京都，日本，2023年11月. Artist Panel Talk with Dr. Susan Schuppl (Board Chair of Forensic Architecture), Kyoto Art Center, Kyoto, JP, Nov 2023
声景由实地考察中于福岛核电站事故废墟周边的录音和安装中附着在冰雕上的温度传感器的现场音频反馈生成。这些录音捕捉到了持续的环境危机中细微而令人不安的频率——通常肉眼无法察觉的频率通过艺术的干预得以显现。当观众穿过空间时，他们的脚步声以及与作品的距离触发了声音的波动，产生了风险的邻近性与冰的不稳定性相呼应的瞬时听觉体验。
装置中的声音元素不仅是一个氛围背景；它们是作品概念框架的核心。声音作为记忆的载体，体现了灾难与其后果之间的时间延迟。它成为了一层时间膜，模糊了现在与过去、可见与可闻、甚至生者与死者之间的界限。声音与物质性的相互作用回荡了作品试图探讨的微妙平衡——在生存与消亡、人与非人身体之间的平衡。
A: Your site-specific work "42°03'28.9"N 138°12’25.0"E" (2023), exhibited at the Kyoto Art Center, has live sound that complements the spatial installation. How did the sound and the installation interact within the spatial context?
C: The sonic sculptural installation work "42°03'28.9"N 138°12’25.0”E" exhibited at Kyoto Art Centre is centred on geotrauma, nuclear culture and the implications of current ongoing conflicts have on environmental resources, energy supply, and nature via the temporal latencies of war and nuclear catastrophes through the lens of hydropolitics, abjection, hyperobjects, and sonic investigation.
In "42°03'28.9"N 138°12’25.0"E," sound functioned as both an autonomous entity and an interwoven component of the installation. The spatial context of the Kyoto Art Center was essential to the work’s conceptualisation—the piece was designed to inhabit the liminal corridor between two architectural spaces, creating a sonic void that fluctuated in response to environmental and human presence. Distinct from the coordinates used in “Torque”, another work in the same series, the latitude and longitude 42°03’28.9"N 138°12’25.0"E in the title refers to a real yet hypothetical mathematical location. Continuing the exploration of correlated transtemporal geographic liminal zones, this point is calculated as the geographical midpoint between the Kyoto Art Center, the Fukushima nuclear disaster site, and other ground zeros (locations directly above, below, or at which a nuclear explosion occurs) referenced within the research framework. The interaction between sound and space was predicated on the idea of latency, particularly the residual echoes of the Fukushima disaster, which reverberate through both material and immaterial realms.
𝟰𝟮°𝟬𝟯'𝟮𝟴.𝟵"𝗡 𝟭𝟯𝟴°𝟭𝟮’𝟮𝟱.𝟬”𝗘, Nov 2023, Kyoto Art Centre, Kyoto, JP
The work in the exhibition focuses on the historical and present role of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, the 1986 disaster and its current role in the Russian-Ukraine war. While the Soviet Union built the Chernobyl plant when it controlled Ukraine, it has shown via historical archival research that many sources viewed the disaster in 1986 as a contributing factor to the fall of the USSR a few years later. During the current conflict, Russian troops occupied the plant as leverage as part of their invasion of Ukraine from 24 February to 31 March 2022. This led to an increase of detected radiation levels and a risk of further radiation leaks.
Through exhibited artworks, archival research, and panel talks with guest speakers and curators including Lucia Pietroiustri (curator at Serpentine Galleries, Head of General Ecologies), Dr. Susan Schuppli (researcher, board chair of Forensic Architecture), Taro Igarashi (architectural historian and critic) and Haruka Iharada (independent curator), the Chernobyl incident and its current status as a decommissioned plant were brought into discussion on the intertwining effects of war and nuclear culture, and in transtemporal parallel with the Fukushima nuclear power plant -- where a meltdown accident occurred more than a decade ago -- on which we conducted field research as part of the residency and exhibition programme.
The soundscape was generated using field recordings from Fukushima and live audio feedback from temperature sensors attached to the ice sculptures within the installation. These recordings captured the subtle but haunting frequencies of an ongoing environmental crisis—frequencies that are usually imperceptible to human ears but made audible through artistic intervention. As viewers moved through the space, their body heat triggered fluctuations in the sound, producing an ephemeral sonic experience that mirrored the proximity of risk and the instability of the ice itself.
The installation's sonic elements weren’t merely an atmospheric backdrop; they were integral to the conceptual framework of the work. The sound acted as a carrier of memory, embodying the temporal latency between catastrophe and its aftereffects. It became a temporal membrane, blurring the boundaries between the present and the past, between what is seen and what is heard, and ultimately between the living and the dead. The interplay between sound and materiality echoed the precarious balance that the work sought to interrogate—between survival and erasure, between human and nonhuman bodies.
𝟰𝟮°𝟬𝟯'𝟮𝟴.𝟵"𝗡 𝟭𝟯𝟴°𝟭𝟮’𝟮𝟱.𝟬”𝗘, Nov 2023, Kyoto Art Centre, Kyoto, JP
A: 展陈中亦有档案材料的呈现，档案研究、田野调查和理论参考分别会在你的创作过程中扮演着什么样的角色？
C: 档案研究、实地考察和理论参考是我创作过程中的基础，它们作为物质的支架支撑着我的推测性叙事。档案并不是静态的储存器，而是活生生的实体——时间、意识形态和记忆的残迹，通过当代的介入可以被重新激活。我常从档案中汲取灵感，例如机构记录和科学数据，也会参考更为隐晦的来源，如个人、口述历史以及被忽视的碎片。
实地考察，尤其是在那些历史或环境创伤明显的地方，直接影响了作品的物质性和象征性。例如在福岛核灾难现场进行的实地考察不仅为了记录灾难的遗迹，也是为了探索那片土地中隐藏的能量，这些被称之为剩余效应的物质——如哲学家和生态学家蒂莫西·莫顿(Timothy Morton) 所言，它们作为超对象（hyperobject）存在，时间上的影响往往肉眼不可见，但却宏大缓慢而又影响深远。
实地考察，尤其是在那些历史或环境创伤明显的地方，直接影响了作品的物质性和象征性。例如在福岛核灾难现场进行的实地考察不仅为了记录灾难的遗迹，也是为了探索那片土地中隐藏的能量，这些被称之为剩余效应的物质——如哲学家和生态学家蒂莫西·莫顿(Timothy Morton) 所言，它们作为超对象（hyperobject）存在，时间上的影响往往肉眼不可见，但却宏大缓慢而又影响深远。
理论参考包括技术文化研究和虚构叙事（fictioning）等协助将作品置于关于超叙述和低温政治（cryopolitics）等更大的讨论框架中。例如唐娜·哈拉维、凯伦·巴拉德和科德沃·艾什顿 (Kodwo Eshun) 等著作，以及生物技术崇高 (biotechnological sublime) 的概念引导着我的物质世界构建与创作。这些参考构成了一张跨文本的网络，通过它作品挑战并颠覆关于身体、技术和身份的既有叙事。通过将这些不同的研究模式综合起来，实践成为了一种神话建构(mythologisation) ——档案不仅是历史记录，更是未来可能性的发生地。
A: The project also featured archival materials. What roles do archival research, fieldwork, and theoretical references play in your creative process?
C: Archival research, fieldwork, and theoretical references are foundational to my creative process, operating as intellectual and material scaffolding upon which my speculative narratives are built. Archives, for me, are not static repositories but living entities—vestiges of time, ideology, and memory that can be reactivated through contemporary engagement. I often draw from both formal archives, such as institutional records and scientific data, as well as more esoteric sources—personal diaries, oral histories, and overlooked ephemera.
Fieldwork, particularly in locations marked by historical or environmental trauma, informs the materiality and symbolism within my works. For example, when I conducted fieldwork at the Fukushima nuclear disaster site, it was not only about documenting the remnants of catastrophe but also uncovering the latent energies in the form of remaining radiation levels embedded in the landscape. These phenomena, referred to as residual effects, exist as “hyperobjects” (as articulated by philosopher and ecologist Timothy Morton) that are temporally viscous and profoundly impactful despite often imperceptible to the naked eye.
Theoretical references, including technocultural studies to speculative fictioning, allow me to frame my works within larger discourses on hyperstition, cryopolitics, and biotechnological ethics. The writings of theorists like Donna Haraway, Karen Barad and Kodwo Eshun as well as concepts such as the biotechnological sublime guide the material worlding and narratives I create. These references form an intertextual web through which I challenge and subvert prevailing narratives about bodies, technology, and identity. By synthesising these varied modes of research, my practice becomes a form of myth-making—where the archive is not merely a historical record but a site of potential futures.
A: 你在材料的选择上似乎有着精细的考量，比如不同的蜡、金属或电子材料等，而物质符号学也是你时常触及的命题，这一方法论是如何体现作品物质性的设计上的？
C: 我作品中的物质性不仅关乎材料的物理特性，更涉及每种材料所承载的符号和象征意义。我将材料视为具备多重含义和历史层次的语言元素。蜡，作为一种材料，经常出现在我的装置中，它不仅因其可塑性和转化能力（从固体到液体再回归固体）而被选用，还因为它与保存、仪式以及占卜等概念的联结。在作品《-321°F | in sarcophago vivum aeri》中，蜡成为了时间坍塌的场域，融化的过程映射了身体的脆弱性，以及面对系统性暴力时保存努力的徒劳无功。
锡、锌和锑等金属则因其工业化的联想、与开采、劳动和剥削的联系而被选中。这些材料承载着殖民历史、环境破坏和资本主义生产的故事，我的作品旨在揭示这些隐藏的脉络。电子元件，如传感器、电路板和LED屏幕，既是物质对象，又是有机与合成系统之间的界面。它们作为一种媒介即信息的渠道，使能够探索技术、生物学与未来设想之间的纠缠关系。
◑ 133° 79.515 N 012° 90.797 E pt. I (图1, 2), “占位符 hamburgevons (𝑜𝑟 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑠 𝑜𝑓…)” (图3) & “内部移植 Intra-graft” (图4), 2021-2023
材料符号学作为一种方法论，促使我将材料视为作品中的主动行为者，而非被动的基底。每种材料的选择都是基于其能够引发特定联想的能力，从神秘学到科技想象。这种方法与我对“超信工程”（hyperstitional engineering）的兴趣相吻合，材料的象征功能在构建未来设想中起着至关重要的作用。我所使用的材料并非中立而是能够改变作品本身及观者的体验。
A: You seem to have a meticulous approach to material selection, including different types of wax, metals, and electronic components. Material semiotics is also a recurring theme in your work. How does this methodology inform the materiality in your pieces?
C: Materiality in my work is not simply about physical properties but about the semiotic and symbolic weight that each material carries. I approach materials as if they were linguistic elements, capable of conveying layered meanings and histories. Wax, for example, frequently appears in my installations not only for its transformative qualities—its ability to shift from solid to liquid and back again—but also for its associations with preservation, ritual, and divination. In works like “-321°F | in sarcophago vivum aeri,” wax becomes a site of temporal collapse, where the process of melting mirrors both the fragility of bodies and the futility of preservation efforts in the face of systemic violence.
Metals like tin, zinc, and antimony are selected for their industrial connotations and their ties to extraction, labor, and exploitation. These materials carry with them the histories of colonialism, environmental degradation, and capitalist production, which I aim to surface in my work. The electronic components —sensors, circuit boards, and LED screens—function as both material objects and interfaces between organic and synthetic systems. They become both the medium and the message, allowing me to explore the entanglements of technology, biology, and speculative futures.
Material semiotics, as a methodology, enables me to engage with materials not as passive substrates but as active agents within the work. Each material is chosen for its capacity to evoke a particular set of associations, from the occult to the technoscientific. This approach aligns with my broader interest in hyperstitional engineering, where the symbolic function of materials plays a crucial role in constructing speculative futures. The materials I use are not neutral but capable of transforming both the work and the viewer’s experience of it.
A: 在皇家艺术学院硕士毕业展的装置作品《原始代理器 Proto-Proxy》（2023）中各组成部分彼此和作品总体之间的关系是什么样的？
C: 原始代理器 P r o t o - P r o x y 是一个以DNA数据存储初创公司与元虚构 (metafiction) 为载体的多媒体装置和研究项目。它呈现动作、言语行为的神话化和世界内部系统网络的解开，探索身体、流动性、人工制品及其残留作为超物 (hyperobjects) 的影响，模糊了艺术与推测性创业活动界限的多媒体概念性思维实验。作品的核心在于对神话技术（mythotechnesis）的探讨，尤其是当代生物科技初创企业如何通过神话创造来构建超虚拟未来——这些虚构通过叙事和物质介入得以自我实现。作品中的每个组件既是独立的对象，又是一个更大系统的一部分，反映了我对系统论与控制论的持续兴趣。
proto-proxy, 2023- (ongoing), Installation view, London, UK
它以物质符号学方式 (material-semiotically) 穿梭于时间性装置、影像/初创公司宣传视频、计算机服务器机房、概念店场景、贸易展览/商业博览会的展位、生物技术初创公司以及商业宣传表演的综合媒介语境，并将超信工程(hyperstitional engineering) 、神话技术 (mythotechnesis) 、生物技术初创公司的运作方式以及接近生物合成连续体的表演性 (performativity) 工具化 ，以及作为通过言语行为 (speech acts) 不断重演的话语结构 (discursive constructs) 的现实。这些个体组件——从合成DNA样本和弹道凝胶到服务器机架和LED屏幕——都是对作品所批判的未来设想的物质代理。这一装置模仿了贸易展或创业公司展示会，每个物件都具有双重功能：既是一个推测性生物科技企业的组成部分，也是当代科技未来如何被商品化和工具化的象征。这些物件本身就是超虚拟的人工制品，旨在在它们帮助创造的世界中发挥作用。例如，射击凝胶通常用于模拟人体组织或助于弹道轨迹，在这里则成为人体在技术和资本剥削系统中脆弱性的隐喻。
作品的整体结构依赖于这些组件之间的互动，形成了一种在推测性与物质之间的反馈循环。在《Proto-Proxy》的语境中，没有任何组件是孤立存在的。每个部分都依赖于其他部分，共同构建出一个连贯的元叙事。这个装置成为了一种“世界化”的形式，观者被邀请探索生物科技初创公司、知识产权以及人体商品化的矛盾与复杂性。组件之间的关系反映了我对系统模块化的兴趣，在这种模块化中个体元素虽然具有独特的意义，但始终在与其所处的更大结构对话。 审视加速主义式的动机和工具化，旨在孵化推测性未来，在其中体现和实施元讽刺性的 (meta-ironic) 、争议性的方法论，以生成有关超现实当前时代的相关问题，并随着时间的推移移动能量和物质。
A: In your installation “Proto-Proxy" (2023–ongoing) at the Royal College of Art MA degree show, what is the relationship between the individual components and the overall work?
C: Proto-Proxy is an ongoing multimedia conceptual thought experiment + international DNA data storage startup that render mythologisation of actions, speech acts and unravelling of intricate networks of systems within worlding, exploring the body, fluidity, artefacts and its residual effects as hyperobjects. It is a multimedia conceptual thought experiment that blurs the line between art and speculative entrepreneurial activity. At its core, the work is an exploration of myth-making, particularly how contemporary biotech startups engage in mythotechnesis to create hyperstitional futures—fictions that make themselves real through narrative and material intervention. Each component of “Proto-Proxy” operates both as an independent object and as part of a larger circulating system, reflecting my ongoing interest in systems theory and cybernetics.
Material-semiotically traversing the synthesised contexts of a time-based physical installation, film/startup promo videos, computer server rooms, concept store scenography, booths at trade shows/business expos, biotech startup, and the performance of a business pitch, it instrumentalises hyperstitional engineering, mythotechnesis, modus operandi in entrepreneurial biotech startups and performativity to approach biological-synthetic continuum, and reality as a discursive construct continually reenacted through speech acts.
The individual components—ranging from synthetic DNA samples and ballistic gelatine to server racks and LED screens—are material proxies for the speculative futures the work critiques. The installation mimics a trade show or startup presentation, with each object serving a dual function: they are both part of a speculative biotech enterprise and symbols of how contemporary technological futures are commodified and instrumentalised. The objects themselves are hyperstitional artifacts, designed to function within the world they help create. For example, the ballistic gelatin, often used to simulate human tissue, becomes a metaphor for the body’s vulnerability within systems of technological and capitalist exploitation.
proto-proxy, 2023- (ongoing), Installation view, London, UK
The work’s overall structure hinges on these components’ interplay, creating a feedback loop between the speculative and the material. In the context of “Proto-Proxy,” no component exists in isolation. Each part relies on the others to build a cohesive, albeit paradoxical, narrative of both innovation and dystopia. The installation becomes a form of “worlding,” where viewers are invited to navigate the contradictions and moral complexities of biotech startups, intellectual property, and the commodification of human bodies. Ultimately, the relationship between the components reflects my interest in the modularity of systems, where individual elements may have distinct meanings but are always in dialogue with the larger structures they inhabit. Italicising and examining accelerationist motives and moral complexities of instrumentalisation, it incubates speculative futures in which meta-ironic, contentious methodologies are embodied and enacted to generate pertinent questions about the surreal current era and to move energy and matter through time.
A: 你认为你的实践是如何介入推测性虚构叙事 (Speculative fictioning) 与科技之间的关系，包括超信（hyperstition）、神话科学（mythscience）等概念的？
C: 推测性虚构叙事与科技是推动我创作实践的双重动力，超虚构与神话科学则为我探究现实、科技文化与未来性提供了概念框架。超信（hyperstition）是早期由理论家尼克·兰德 (Nick Land) 提出，并由他所在的赛博文化研究组（CCRU）以及雷扎・内加尔斯塔尼 (Reza Negarestani) 等发展的概念，指的是通过流转、影响和信念而产生现实影响的虚构。神话科学 (mythscience) 是西蒙·奥沙利文 (Simon O’Sullivan) 提出的概念将罗兰·巴德 (Roland Barthes) 的“神话学”方法 (mythologies) 与科学探究和科幻叙事相结合，这一工具让我能够探索技术与演变的叙事如何实现成为一种自我履行的预言。
在我的作品中虚构叙事不仅是叙事手法更是研究与创作方法。我经常构建虚构原型——技术、物件和场景，它们存在于一个虚构世界中，但与现实中的科技发展产生共鸣。例如在作品《Proto-Proxy》中，通过构建一个围绕DNA数据存储公司的虚构叙事，回应了现实中的生物信息学和知识产权的趋势。这种超虚构的方法使能够批判性地审视虚构技术如何通过风险投资、媒体叙事和技术进步的信念系统得以实现。
在实践中科技既是媒介也是主题。我使用数字化制作、编码和电子技术，不仅作为实现雕塑和装置的工具，同时也作为对当代技术文化转变的隐喻。对科技的批判性介入常常质疑快速技术变革的伦理及其影响，通过虚构叙事我也探索了新技术所带来分形式未来可能性——这些未来既释放又深具问题。作品的焦点在这个交汇处，虚构、神话与现实的界限变得模糊，技术的未来不仅仅由技术本身塑造，还受到叙事的影响。
proto-proxy, 2023- (ongoing), Installation details, 杜鲁门啤酒厂艺术空间Truman Brewery, London, UK, July 2023
实践创作通过对思维实验的实施和在现实生活提案上应用各种形式的推理，研究和创作经常推演出实质性的类似于第二十二条军规性质的境况和解决方案。这些过程看似不太真实并与其试图反抗的结构相勾结，但往往是唯一剩下的可行方案，这些结果隐含地回应了它们卡夫卡式的前提，并折射了当前诡谬而不确定的时代中的生活世界，被文化范式转变的迹象所撕裂。
这些线索贯穿过去几年的实践并不断衍生与新的语境交织于一起。例如在作为瑞典哥德堡13festivalen 行为艺术节和德国Generate!行为表演与计算媒体艺术节演出的《in vitro [ _ ] |{ _____ } / 体外[ _ ] |{ _____ }》中，自己作为表演的叙事中的角色思考水母水质状况的变化是如何通过一些隐晦的东西将我们和它们联系起来的，比如基于可变性、适应环境的生存，以及面对社会分隔的弹性和繁荣的能力。它们的祖先从元古宙时代的海洋环境中演变成了顶级捕食者。它们比我们更早存在，而在由于我们自己的行为而导致的集体存在恐慌的时代，谁是幸存者？最简单的解剖结构和表面上看似无定形的能力很可能是人们去商店和假肢师那里寻求的生物骇客措施来达到的食物链的顶端。
A: How does your practice engage with the intersection of speculative fictional narratives and technology, including discourses on hyperstition and mythscience?
C: Speculative fictioning and technology are the twinning engines that drive much of my creative practice, with hyperstition and mythscience providing the conceptual framework for my investigations into the nature of reality, technoculture, and futurity. Hyperstition, as coined by theorists like Nick Land and developed further by the Cybernetic Culture Research Unit (CCRU) and Reza Negarestani, refers to fictions that, through circulation, influence, and belief, generate real-world consequences. Mythscience, meanwhile, is a hybrid concept by Simon O'Sullivan that merges Roland Barthes’s concept of mythologies with scientific inquiry and science fictioning, a tool that allows me to explore how cultural narratives about technology and progress become self-fulfilling prophecies.
In my work, speculative fictioning is not just a narrative device but a method of research and creation. I often construct diegetic prototypes—fictional technologies, objects, and scenarios—that exist within a speculative world but resonate with current technological developments. For instance, in works like “Proto-Proxy,” I engage with the speculative futures of biotech startups, creating a fictional narrative around a DNA data storage company that echoes real-world trends in bioinformatics and intellectual property. This hyperstitional approach allows me to critique the mechanisms by which speculative technologies become real—through venture capital, media narratives, and the belief systems surrounding technological progress.
Technology in my practice is both medium and subject. I use digital fabrication, coding, and electronics not only as tools to realise my sculptures and installations but also as metaphors for the broader technocultural shifts we are currently experiencing. My engagement with technology is often critical, questioning the ethics and implications of rapid technological change. Yet, through speculative fiction, I also explore the fractalising possibilities that new technologies may offer—futures that are simultaneously liberating and problematic. My work exists at this intersection, where the lines between fiction, myth, and reality blur, and where technological futures are shaped as much by narratives as by the technologies themselves.
proto-proxy, 2023- (ongoing), Installation details, 杜鲁门啤酒厂艺术空间Truman Brewery, London, UK, July 2023
Through enactments of thought experiments and varied forms of reasonings applied onto the real life propositions, the research and work recurrently lead to or become visceral speculative Catch-22 scenarios and solutions. Seemingly implausible and complicit with the structures of power that the processes attempt to revolt against, but oftentimes the only viable ones left, these outcomes implicitly echo their Kafkaesque premises and refract the lifeworld within the current strange, uncertain era, ruptured by signs of the coming cultural shifts.
These threads have woven through my practice over the past few years, continually evolving and interweaving with new contexts. For instance, in the performance piece “in vitro [ _ ] |{ _____ }”, showcased at 13festivalen in Gothenburg, Sweden and the Generate! Computational and Performance Art Festival in Germany, I embodied a character within the performance’s narrative, reflecting on how changing the jellyfish's water condition is what connects us and them through something as inexplicit as survival on the basis of mutability, acclimatisation, and the ability to be resilient and thrive facing a society that compartmentalises. The somatic negotiation of the human/nonhuman body in the performance alludes to a multispecies holobiont model and a guerrilla support structure that queers norms and structures in place in the face of collective survival against systemic violence and adversities. The Ediacaran fauna, or ancestors of jellyfish, have survived and evolved from being the top predators in the marine environment way back in the Proterozoic era. They existed long before us, and in an era marked by collective existential dread, brought about by our own actions, who, ultimately, are the survivors? Their simple anatomical structure and seemingly amorphous resilience may well be the very traits people seek from biohackers and prosthetists alike to attain their own place at the top of the food chain.
《体外 in vitro [ _ ] |{ _____ }》，瑞典哥德堡13festivalen 行为艺术节和德国Generate!行为表演与计算媒体艺术节演出现场，影像截图，2019年11月与2020年1月
A: 你近期在纽约NARS Foundation的驻留中创作的新作《Lance of plausible deniability》以及《aegis (eternity MMA ring) JH37(29)F-TR:0185》（2024），如何通过其潜在的动能体现个体或者观念在系统中的反身性？
C: NARS基金会驻地项目以及在纽约的经历为我提供了新的视角以审视自己作品的发展路径，尤其是在长期及新项目的研究与实验阶段。驻地期间创作的作品采用了元叙事的视角。作品《Lance of Plausible Deniability》与《aegis (eternity MMA ring) JH37(29)F-TR:0185》通过物性、时间张力、图示结构和跨媒介的视角，探索了文化再现(regurgitation) 中的潜在动能与超虚构 (hyperstition) 操作。
《合理否认之矛 Lance of Plausible Deniability》是一件基于时间的雕塑作品，体现了静止与暴力之间的张力。矛作为武器是潜在力量工具化的物质遗留物。它是一种意图、一种行动、一种物质-符号化的言语行为，被瞬间冷冻成一个叙事性的工具，暗示着一系列未命名之目的←↑→͍ ⌍⌏↜↝↞↟↠。作品玩弄虚构暴力、游戏 (play) 、赌场机置等意象，其构造基于“载体-矛”的非二元象征 (引用厄休拉·勒古恩 Ursula K. Le Guin 在《虚构的背袋理论》中关于技术、工具与世界的思考）。作品在大系统的“远传”网络中与其内部观察到的一系列矛盾对抗，同时在此过程中表演并质疑着自身——一种由共谋、必然性和求生本能混合而成的结合物，而这些又隐秘地转化为行动中的“合理否认” (plausible deniability)。
“Lance of plausible deniability” (图1) 与 “aegis (eternity MMA ring) JH37(29)F-TR:0185” (图2), 驻地项目展览现场 Residency Exhibition, NARS Foundation, NYC，纽约，美国，2024年9月
与上一件作品并行，《aegis (eternity MMA ring) JH37(29)F-TR:0185》中标题所指的“神盾 (aegis)”意象来自希腊神话中宙斯和雅典娜的羊皮盾牌，象征着攻击与防御之间的平衡，以及动能释放与潜在能量的表面张力。以高码率的物质符号学，元“故事”®解析参照主义，通过伪众念构建 (egregore engineering) 出修辞结构。该作品由一系列从2022年至今的（非）讽刺元分裂帖 (schizoposting) IG故事的类比合集组成，指涉一系列对我以及身边创意群体中他人作品的内容被重复和版权侵犯的事件。这些短暂的数字物件被覆膜于通过手法选择的巨型纸牌表面，逐步朝向一种几乎在收藏者/囤积者/张贴者的心中被恋物化的物质表面和界面。当作品被转译至混合格斗 (MMA) 擂台的语境中时，标题暗示的象征性成为了一个充满势能的空间；作品探讨了个人、系统和念体(egregores) 如何在动能与势能之间不断博弈，处于开放式的叙事张力之中，等待着催化的发生。
在这两件作品中，循环重演的论述构造 (discursive constructs) 与潜在动能成为了塑造人类行为和社会系统的隐形力量的隐喻。作品揭示了这些能量的不稳定性，以及它们如何被挟制或释放，并通过这种方式定义了文化现实的结构以及个人与制度间的权力动态。
A: During your residency at the NARS Foundation in New York, you created works like "Lance of Plausible Deniability" and "Aegis (Eternity MMA Ring) JH37(29)F-TR:0185" (2024). Could you elaborate on the concept of latent kinetic energy in these works?
C: NARS Foundation residency and the experience in New York provided me with a fresh lens to examine and reflect on my body of work and the kind of journey it has taken while at the research and experimentation stages of long-term and new projects. Both works made during the residency employ a metafictional perspective. "Lance of Plausible Deniability" and "Aegis (Eternity MMA Ring) JH37(29)F-TR:0185" engage with latent kinetic energy and hyperstitional machinations of cultural regurgitation through the lens of objecthood, temporal tension, diagrammatics and transmedia.
“Lance of Plausible Deniability" is a time-based sculptural piece embodying the tension between stasis and violence. The lance, as a weapon, is the material artefact of the intrumentalisation of potential force. It is an intent, an action, a material-semiotic speech act flash frozen into a diegetic instrument insinuating a parliament of unnamed purposes ←↑→͍⌍⌏↜↝↞↟↠. Flirting with the tropes of fictitious instruments of violence, play, casino contraptions, and the interplay of eros and thanatos, it is constructed based on the nondual symbolism of a carrier-spear (in reference to Ursula Le Guin’s thoughts on technology, tool and worlding in The Carrier Bag Theory of Fiction). The work contends with a set of contradictions observed in the teleoplex system at large that the work is also part of while aknowledging-enacting the facet that it is problematising as a result of a cocktail mixture of complicity, inevitability, and survival instincts, all of which get covertly transcribed into plausible deniability in action.
“Lance of plausible deniability”, 驻地项目展览现场 Residency Exhibition, NARS Foundation, NYC，纽约，美国，2024年9月
驻地项目工作室一角 Residency studio views (detail), NARS Foundation, NYC，纽约，美国，2024年9月
Parallel to the instrument floating in mid air in the previous piece, "Aegis (Eternity MMA Ring) JH37(29)F-TR:0185”, the "Aegis" in the title refers to the goatskin shield materialising the attribute of Zeus and Athene in classical mythology, suggesting the balance between aggression and defense, between kinetic release and potential energy through its surface tension. It is composed of High-bitrate material-semiotics via meta-stories® expounding on referencism* (ditto) through egregore engineering the syntactical strata. The work is made of an analog anthology of (un)ironic meta-schizoposting IG stories made from 2022 up to the recent months, referring to instances of content regurgitation and copyright infringement against my works and the works of people in the creative scene (sometimes by the scene itself). These transient digital artefacts were laminated on the surfaces of giant playing cards selected by a literal sleight of hand, melded in the materiality of the anadig surface and interfaces almost towards a point of fetishisation in the mind of a collector/hoarder/poster. When ironically and transtextually exported into the contexts of a mixed martial arts (MMA) ring through the suggestion of its title, the allegorical ring of the cyber-realm itself becomes a charged space of latent energy; the work reflects on how individuals, systems, and thought-forms (egregores) are constantly engaged in a baccarat of kinetic and latent energy, where forces remain in tension and the constant shuffling of an open ended participatory narrative, waiting for catalysis.
In both pieces, the concepts of cyclically reenacted discursive constructs and latent kinetic energy become metaphors for the unseen forces that shape human behaviour and social systems. It highlights the precariousness of these energies, the way they are harnessed, suppressed, or unleashed, and how they define the the fabric of cultural realities and power dynamics of both individuals and institutions.
A: 今年初你在Gossamer Fog画廊和Enclave Projects空间联合展览中与Aleksy Domke合作创作了雕塑《谷歌庞贝恋人》（2024），这样的合作创作对你来说是一个什么样的过程？
C: 与Aleksy Domke合作创作《谷歌庞贝恋人》是一段有趣的过程，这次合作促成不同但互补的观点的融合。该项目始于对数字考古的探索，尤其是技术介入如何塑造我们对历史和记忆的理解。我们都对“发掘”数字遗迹——如搜索算法、元数据和互联网文物——并将其重构于当代艺术语境中的想法深感兴趣。
Aleksy在设计领域的背景及其对网络文化的兴趣为项目带来了概念与荒诞的元素，而我对虚构、神话技术以及“schizoposting” (作为媒介)的兴趣为作品注入了叙事与象征性。这个过程是迭代的，伴随着我们多次讨论如何将材料实验与数字过程结合在一起。我们将这个作品视为一种虚构考古学，通过筛选数字文化的碎片，试图重构一个既虚构又深植于真实技术实践的叙事。
雕塑本身——一个由砂浆和3D打印结构组成的结合体——成为了对话的物质化体现。《谷歌庞贝情人》既是对庞贝考古遗址中著名的情人形象的戏仿，也是对当代网络媒介关系现象的探索。通过结合古代与现代元素，我们希望探讨科技如何重新配置我们的互动方式，乃至我们记忆与神话化这些互动的方式。这一合作过程是流动且动态的，双方为作品贡献不同的层次创造出一个超越个人实践、开启未来方向的作品。
A: Earlier this year, you collaborated with Aleksy Domke on the sculpture “Google Pompeii Lovers” (2024) exhibited at Gossamer Fog x Enclave Projects. What was the collaborative process like for you?
C: Collaboration on “Google Pompeii Lovers” was a fun process that allowed for a synthesis of distinct yet complementary perspectives. The project began as a speculative inquiry into digital archaeology and the ways in which technological mediation shapes our understanding of history and memory. We were both fascinated by the notion of “excavating” digital ruins—search algorithms, metadata, and internet artefacts—and reconstructing them in the context of contemporary art.
google Pompeii gay lovers, 2024. Sculpture in collaboration with Aleksy Domke. L45CM*W45CM*H30CM, Gossamer Fog 画廊, Enclave Projects 空间，展览现场，伦敦，英国，2024年
Aleksy’s background in design and interest in online culture brought conceptual rigour and elements of absurdity to the project, while my own fascination with speculative fictioning, mythotechnesis and “schizoposting” (as a medium) infuses the work with layers of narrative and symbolism. The process was iterative, involving numerous conversations about how we could integrate material experimentation with digital processes. We both approached the collaboration as a form of speculative archaeology, sifting through the detritus of digital culture and attempting to reconstruct a narrative that was at once fictional and deeply rooted in real technological practices.
The sculpture itself—an amalgamation of mortar and 3D-printed structures —became a physical manifestation of our dialogue. “Google Pompeii Lovers” is a play on both the famous archaeological find of the entwined lovers in Pompeii and the modern-day phenomenon of internet-mediated relationships. By combining ancient and contemporary elements, we sought to explore how technology reconfigures not only our interactions but also the way we remember and mythologize them. The process was fluid and dynamic, with each of us contributing different layers to the final piece, creating a work that transcended our individual practices and opened up new speculative avenues for future projects.
google Pompeii gay lovers, 2024. Sculpture in collaboration with Aleksy Domke. Mortar, plaster SLA resin, L45CM*W45CM*H30CM
A: 通过在伦敦、上海、柏林等地组织活动、策展和跨媒介集体创作，比如组织平台 Æon和艺术家主导的表演和声音艺术集体Operation Theatre Purplebl0od Lab ，你如何将对具身体验转化到研究和创作中？
C: 身体体验尤其是实验性声音艺术表演和锐舞 (rave) 中集体沉浸的特性，是我和所在的创意群体合作性跨媒体工作和策展实践的核心。Æon和Operation Theatre Purplebl0od Lab为打破表演者、参与者和环境之间界限的平台，成为共创的场域，在此，声音、视觉和空间元素融合为整体。
作为跨学科和协作的非线性思维的创作者，我一直对总体艺术 (Gesamtkunstwerk) 的概念很感兴趣。活动和展览组织为我和所在的创意群体提供了综合性、探索性和现实构建的媒介或媒介交汇点以实现全方位艺术愿景，而现实构建也是我在个人项目中反复探讨的主题。许多合作项目源自与朋友和艺术家音乐人朋友们的偶发的讨论和相遇，这些活动和项目因实现共同想法和群体建设而生。
Æon与Operation Theatre Purplebl0od Lab展览演出现场，以及与Daisy联合策展的 “Subterranean Organ” ，伦敦The Crypt 画廊，系统SYSTEM上海与柏林ACUD画廊等地，2022-2024年；现场图中包括(依照顺序)：XIE3LLA & king_bright_bright, Kate Howe, Friendred Peng, Pierre Engelhard, Ramilda, Geo Aghinea, Buket Yenidogan, nielisha等装置与表演艺术家
涡 流 V OR T E X，2022-2023年，研究项目、表演、短片，与Bea Xu & co 合作(共同创造者)，在格林威治子午线举行的现场行为表演，于2023 年4月米兰艺术周、Forma Arts & Media（伦敦，英国，2023 年 8 月）与芬兰赫尔辛基国际艺术家计划 (HIAP) 中LungA 行为表演艺术节作为影像装置进行放映，塞济斯菲厄泽，冰岛，2023 年 7 月
在策划和组织这些活动时，我们汲取了伦敦 rave 文化的沉浸式多感官环境，以及底特律科技舞曲 (Detroit techno) 和西雅图音乐场景的多样性，声音、光线与身体在其中以流动且非等级化的方式交织在一起。这反映在对活动空间动态的处理上，每个元素——无论是声音、表演或雕塑——为了构成一个更大的身体叙事。它注重重复性、节奏和集体狂欢，为在创作中探索时间性、仪式性和短暂性提供了丰富的框架。Rave 成了一种当代仪式，通过运动的身体生成新社会和美学空间。这体现在组织的集体跨媒体表演中，声音艺术、表演和视觉艺术交汇，形成时间上的经验集合，观众不仅是被动的观赏者，而是共同创作者。无论是通过实时声音操控、基于运动的互动，还是感官反馈循环，这些体验改变了观众与作品及彼此的关系。
这些项目的合作性也反映了rave和集体艺术实践中去中心化、无等级的精神，联结性超越了性别、种族和宗教。通过这些平台生成的身体经验，使能够探索集体狂欢与磐变如何通过艺术得以实施，创造临时的、边界模糊的自由与实验空间。
A: Through organising events, curation, and collective transmedia work in London, Shanghai, Berlin,etc. such as the creative platform Æon and the artist-led performance & sound art collective Operation Theatre Purplebl0od Lab, how do you incorporate embodied experiences, into your research and creative work?
C: The embodied experiences from experimental sound art performance, electronic music and club culture, particularly the collective, immersive nature of raves, are central to my collective transmedia and curatorial practice. Æon and Operation Theatre Purplebl0od Lab serve as initiatives where the boundaries between performer, participant, and environment are intentionally blurred. These spaces become sites of co-creation, where the sonic, visual, and spatial elements fuse to create holistic experiences.
As a lateral thinker who tends to work transdisciplinarily and collaboratively, I’ve been interested in Gesamtkunstwerk fora very long time, and event and show organisation become a great medium (or a nexus of mediums) to manifest the visions in an all-encompassing, exploratory way. Themed events have heightened potential in the production of realities — a refrain I continually deal with in my own projects as well. In these cases, events and shows become a medium that is participatory and bringing the embodied experiences of certain realities to the community and the masses. Many of my collaborative efforts have arisen serendipitously from random exhilarating discussions i have with my friends and creatives sharing common and sometimes niche interests. These events and activities come into being through the sheer sense of joy when actualising a shared vision and community building.
Æon与Operation Theatre Purplebl0od Lab展览演出现场，以及与Daisy联合策展的 “Subterranean Organ” ，伦敦The Crypt 画廊，系统SYSTEM上海与柏林ACUD画廊等地，2022-2024年；现场图中包括(依照顺序)：Eleni Zervou, Kate Howe, 2G等装置与表演艺术家
In curating and organising these events, we draw from the immersive, multisensory environments of rave culture and music scenes in London, Detroit techno and music scenes in Seattle, where sound, light, and bodies interweave in a fluid, non-hierarchical manner. This is reflected in the way we approach the spatial dynamics of the events, ensuring that each element—whether sonic, performative, or sculptural—contributes to a larger, embodied narrative. Raves are sites of contemporary rituals, spaceswhere bodies in motion generate new forms of social and aesthetic knowledge. This is mirrored in the collective transmedia performances we organise, where sound art, performance, theatre, nightlife, scenography and visual art converge to create a temporal assemblage of experiences. In these works, embodied participation is not merely an effect but a method through which the audience becomes co-creators. Whether it’s through real-time sound manipulation, movement-based interaction, or sensory feedback loops, these experiences transform the audience’s relationship to the work and to each other.
The collaborative nature of these projects also speaks to the decentralised, non-hierarchical ethos of both rave culture and collective artistic practice, connecting to the universal spirit beyond gender, ethnicities, religion, etc. The embodied experiences generated through these platforms allow me to explore how collective exaltation, subversion, and resistance can be enacted through art, creating transient, liminal zones of freedom and experimentation.
A: 你是如何通过多样的实践组织自己纷繁的思路的，在现阶段，你认为其中最关键的持续的线索是什么？
C: 组织我的实践如同一个动态互联的系统，各种元素——装置、雕塑、表演和研究——在不断的流动中协同运作于更大的概念框架内。我的创作通过一种递归的生成过程发展，在研究、材料实验和虚构叙事之间游走。我将每个项目视为一场展开的探究，媒体之间的边界在此过程中消解，促成了观念的交互滋长，仿佛在媒介转译中经历“忒修斯之船” (ship of Theseus) 的渐次重构。
一些作家的角色是连续的，穿梭在多样的世界中，像彩色玻璃般在正典分岔的透镜上翻转。这些角色汇聚成不同可能生活的选集，拥有同样的内核的火焰、核心与灵魂，存在于角色性格的本质中。而有些作家的角色则呈现出分形结构，从同一根源中不断分化，演变为一个持续宇宙中的不同面向。个人历史、存在意义和心理随着色彩的镜头模糊与调焦于不同的影像解析度。如果用角色研究的比喻来描述我的实践，我更认同后者。追踪在众多世界构建中的烟雾轨迹时，创作过程自然演变成一种更趋向发散性而非收敛的方式。
《体外 in vitro [ _ ] |{ _____ }》，瑞典哥德堡13festivalen 行为艺术节和德国Generate!行为表演与计算媒体艺术节演出现场，2019年11月与2020年1月
我的实践两栖般存在于工作室、研究兔子洞迷宫 (research rabbit holes)、与合作者共享的群体思维 (hivemind) 、Tor网络的嵌套、DM、Telegram以及不断分形化的现实和新兴世界数据库中。我将创意与协作的支线任务视作与主线同样重要的存在——它们彼此启发，像双螺旋般共同演化。在常常是跨学科性质的研究阶段中，一种思维实验的外骨骼开始形成，建立在假设、猜想、限制情境和非因果关系的内部框架上，留下这种框架的物质证据，以在可能性和叙事的世界/网中显现和碰撞。有时会涉及跨学科的合作（例如在研究项目中与低温科学家、生物化学家和算法建筑师合作），以进一步推动思维实验的探究和实现。一个“逻辑上”合理的框架被视为原则（并有可能被颠覆），然而其参照框架取决于其主题的具体性。
在此阶段，我的工作最关键的线索围绕着推测性虚构、科技政治与材料符号学的交叉。这些主题在多个项目中体现，无论是“ -321°F | 空中灵柩 in sarcophago vivum aeri”中对低温保存的研究，还是“虚拟代理器 Proto-Proxy”中对未来生物技术未来的推测。我特别关注人类、非人类及合成体如何置身于技术、生态和政治权力的领域之中。作品中反复出现的西西弗斯式的循环和第22条军规般的无解情境，旨在揭示个体在这些系统中所处的境况，思考能动性与共谋的议题，探讨风险如何潜在地被赋予磐变与重塑这些系统的力量。
A: How do you organise your multifaceted practices and sprawling creative processes? At this stage, what do you consider to be the most crucial ongoing threads in your work?
C: Organising my practice is akin to managing a dynamic, interconnected system, where various strands—installation, sculpture, performance, and research—are in constant flux but operate within a larger conceptual framework. My work evolves through a recursive, generative process that moves between research, material experimentation, and fictioning. I approach each project as an unfolding inquiry, where the boundaries between different media dissolve, allowing for cross-pollination of ideas, evolving in a process akin to the ship of Theseus in the transcription of mediums.
Some writers’s characters are continuous, transiting in a panoply of worlds flipping the stained glass panes of canon divergence. An anthology of different possible lives, warmed by the same hearth, same core same anima existing at the core of a character’s personality. Some writers’s characters are fractalising, breaking away into different facets in stories born from the same stem in a continual universe. Personal histories, raisons d’être, psychologies mutate as the chromatic lens blur and attune to different image definitions. If I were to use the analogy of writing character study to describe my practice, I personally identify more with the latter. as I trace the smoke trails in panoplies of worlding, it organically evolves to be more of a divergent than convergent approach.
《体外 in vitro [ _ ] |{ _____ }》，瑞典哥德堡13festivalen 行为艺术节和德国Generate!行为表演与计算媒体艺术节演出现场，2019年11月与2020年1月
My practice exists amphibiously in the studio, research rabbit holes, the hive minds I share with my collaborators, and panoplies of Tor nests, DMs, telegram chats, and databases of fractalising realities and emerging worlds. I view my creative and collaborative side quests as equally important as the main one(s) — they inform and evolve with one another like a double helix. During research oftentimes of an interdisciplinary nature, an exoskeletal framework of thought experiment(s) takes hold, built upon an internal structure of presuppositions, speculations, limit situations and non-sequiturs, leaving behind material and forensic vestiges to transpire and coalesce with one another in a constellational worlding/webbing of possibilities and narrativity. Collaborations across disciplines (with cryogenic scientists, biochemists, and computational architects, as in the recent research projects for instance) sometimes take place to further the interdisciplinary inquiry and actualisation of the thought experiment. A 'logically' sound framework is upheld as a principle (and to be potentially subverted), and yet by which frame of reference is contingent on the specificity of its subject matters.
At this stage, the most crucial threads in my work revolve around the intersections of speculative fiction, technopolitics, and material semiotics. These themes manifest across multiple projects, whether through the investigation of cryopreservation in “-321°F | in sarcophago vivum aeri” or the speculative biotech futures of “Proto-Proxy.” I’m interested in how bodies—human, nonhuman, synthetic—are situated within technological, ecological, and political domains of power. The Sisyphean cycles of abjection and Catch-22 type of scenarios often present in my work, speak to larger concerns regarding agency, culpability and complicity within these systems, shedding light on how risk can be potentialised to destabilise and transform them.
-321 °F | in sarcophago vivum aeri, installation view at St. James Hatcham, Goldsmiths, University of London
A: 你在作品阐述中多次提到西西弗斯式的概念，这与你在美亚多地的成长和创作经历有什么样的联系？
C: 西西弗斯的概念聚焦于重复循环，侧面反映了在不同文化、地理和社会政治语境中游走的体验。出生于西雅图在底特律和上海长大并移居伦敦，同时存在于多个世界中迷失却又富有创造力的体验伴随着我。在这些空间中不断协商自我身份与主导权的过程，正如西西弗斯式的挣扎——一个永无终结的“成型”过程。于地理之间的穿梭，我开始关注”语境塌叠 (context collapse)”的概念，大都会的“非场所”和地理文化特异性如曼陀罗式涟漪向外扩散。这种持续的自我重塑让我接受了“未能完全抵达”的流动性，并潜意识地吸收所生活过的地方多样属性。
这种永恒运动向外辐射，并在全球在地化社群中回荡，伴随着一种过渡状态的感觉——无论是地理、身份还是时间上。这种“介于中间”的感知，使我能够直观地体验和探索身体如何穿越和被不同的系统所塑造，从生物政治到文化记忆。在我的作品系列《空中灵柩 in sarcophago vivum aeri》（其中包括系列雕塑作品和表演作品《扭矩Torque》）中，西西弗斯的循环象征了迁徙的循环本质、生存和在对抗系统性不公中的无尽劳动。无论是通过技术政治的视角、散居代际创伤还是系统性暴力，该系列探讨了个体在不利环境中所面对的生存的西西弗斯式任务。这些任务面对巨大的压迫力量往往显得徒劳无功，但这种抵抗的行为本身却在其表面徒劳中产生了催化效果。
西西弗斯式的挣扎也呼应了在晚期资本主义、地质创伤、生态危机和快速技术文化变革塑造的世界中存在的广泛生存困境。我常常通过作品探讨渴望与徒劳之间的动态张力，反映出一种试图突破固有循环的愿望，同时批判性地审视其普遍存在的特质，这一特质往往被集体的冷漠遮蔽。这种二元性在《-321°F | 空中灵柩 in sarcophago vivum aeri》的作品中得以体现，试图通过冷冻保存生命却反而成为了一种自我抹杀的悖论；在《Proto-Proxy》中，对生物存储的未来设想则被其自身的讽刺、实用主义和企业自利性所困扰。
西西弗斯的概念不仅是游牧成长经历的一个方面的隐喻，它也是我用来审视当代存在的更广泛集体状况的批判性视角。它让我探讨我们如何在那些看似旨在压迫身体和精神的循环中找到主体行动施为性、颠覆和磐变的时刻。这也蕴含着一种韧性，在重复中寻找意义与主导权。我关注这些循环如何被打破，如何通过突变或颠覆创造新的可能性空间。由此西西弗斯的挣扎不仅是一个负担，更是潜在的转化之地。
A: You frequently reference the Sisyphean concept in your work. How does this relate to your experiences of growing up and creating across different parts of the world?
C: The Sisyphean concept, with its emphasis on endless cycles of effort, futility, and repetition, resonates with my experience of navigating different cultural, geographical, and socio-political contexts. Born in Seattle and growing up betweenDetroit and Shanghai, and later moving to London at eighteen, I have long been aware of the disorienting yet productive nature of existing in multiple worlds simultaneously. The constant negotiation of identity and agency within these spaces mirrors the Sisyphean struggle—an endless process of becoming that never quite resolves itself. These movements between places got me interested in embodying a context collapse, a tromp l’oeil of metropolitan non-places and geo-cultural specificity reverberating outwards in a mandala ripple. The incurred constant reinvention made me embrace the mobility of not fully ‘arriving’ at places and subconsciously embody the multitudinous attributes of where I’ve spent my life.
The sense of perpetual motion radiates outwards and echoes in the glocal communities, coupled with the sense of being in transit, both physically and existentially. This sense of being in-between—whether in terms of geography, identity, or temporality— enables me to viscerally experience and explore how bodies move through and are shaped by different systems, from biopolitical governance to cultural memory. In my series “in sarcophago vivum aeri” (the series of sculptural works also including the performance piece “Torque”), the Sisyphean cycle becomes a metaphor for the cyclical nature of displacement, survival, and the endless labour involved in resisting systemic injustices. Whether through the lens of technopolitics, diasporic generational trauma, or systemic violence, the in examines how bodies are subjected to Sisyphean tasks of survival within adverse environments. These tasks are often futile in the face of overwhelming forces, yet the act of resistance itself becomes catalytic, even in its apparent futility.
←↑→͍ ⌍⌏↜↝↞↟↠, 泰特现代美术馆 lates programme 放映，伦敦，英国，2023年3月. ←↑→͍ ⌍⌏↜↝↞↟↠, screened at Tate Modern lates, London, UK, March 2023
The Sisyphean struggle also speaks to the broader existential condition of living in a world shaped by late capitalism, geotrauma, ecological crises, and rapid technocultural change. My works frequently investigate the dynamic tension between longing and futility, reflecting a desire to break free from entrenched cycles while critically examining their pervasive nature, shaped by a collective indifference to meaningful change. This duality is reflected in pieces like “-321°F | in sarcophago vivum aeri,” where the attempt to preserve life through cryopreservation becomes a paradoxical act of erasure, or “Proto-Proxy,” where the speculative futures of bio storage are haunted by their own ironies, utilitarianism and corporate self-interest.
The Sisyphean concept is not just a metaphor for transnational movements but a critical lens through which I interrogate the broader collective conditions of contemporary existence. It allows me to explore how we might find moments of agency and transgression out of cycles that seem designed to subjugate both bodies and spirits. There is also a sense of resilience, of finding meaning and agency within the repetition. I am interested in how these cycles can be disrupted, how moments of rupture or subversion can create spaces for new possibilities. In this way, the Sisyphean struggle becomes not just a burden but a potential site for transformation.
In sarcophago vivum aeri (MMXXII ver.)，Ugly Duck艺术空间展览现场，伦敦，英国，2023年2月
A: 可以透露一下未来的创作和展览计划吗～
C: 我目前正在筹备多个新个人和合作项目，继续推进虚构、材料实验与跨媒体叙事的边界，并将与美国及亚洲的场馆和非传统空间合作举办更多活动。2025年即将举行的展览之一将探讨材料符号学、炼金术和工程未来的交汇。这次装置作品将包含现场艺术干预和雕塑，并结合我持续进行的关于存储技术的研究，讨论其在低温政治、（非）时间性和现实建构中的影响。
我也正处于一个合作项目的开发阶段，该项目将与计算建筑师和生物化学家共同进行，计划于明年在美国和伦敦展出。该项目将探索建筑学与温度政治的交叉——无论是通过低温存储还是流放。这些项目反映了我对技术和物质性之间的中间空间的持续探索，并对当代政治和技术文化危机进行探讨。
APTX 4869' -321 °F : 133° 79.515 N 012°90.797 E, 雕塑（细节）, ACUD画廊，柏林，德国，2022年12月. 'APTX 4869' -321 °F : 133° 79.515 N 012°90.797 E, Sculpture. Installation view, ACUD Galerie, Berlin, DE, Dec 2022
A: Could you share any insights into your upcoming projects and exhibitions?
C: I’m excited to be working on several new projects that continue to push the boundaries between speculative fiction, material experimentation, and transmedia storytelling. More events collaborating with rave venues and off-spaces will also happen stateside and across Asia. One of my upcoming solo exhibitions, scheduled for 2025, explores the convergence of material semiotics, alchemy and engineering futures. The installation will feature live art interventions and large-scale sculptures, drawing on my ongoing research into storage technologies and their implications in cryopolitics, (a)temporality, and reality construction.
I’m also in stages of developing a collaborative project with computational architects and biochemists, which will be showcased stateside and in London next year. This project will explore the intersection of architecture and thermopolitics—whether through cryopreservation or exile. These projects reflect ongoing commitment to exploring the interspaces between mythotechnesis and materiality, continuing to weave speculative futures and inquiries into the political and technocultural crises of our time.
图片和视频均由艺术家提供
All Images and videos courtesy of the artist.
Artworks and related textual materials © Celeste Viv Ly
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